WillE's WoW Forever rogue guide, checked against the client

2026-10-17 · ForeverDB

Community creator WillE walks through how the rogue changes in WoW Forever: energy, combo points, poisons, the three talent trees, levelling and PvP. We checked every claim against the beta client. Most of the named talents match the client's numbers, two new capstones sit above the level 30 cap, and a few claims are about feel or server rules the client can't show.

This is a community video by WillE, not Blizzard. The claims below are WillE's, and we checked each one against the WoW Forever beta client (build 1.60.1.70450). The ability and talent numbers come from the client's own data; where a claim is about feel or a server rule, we say so.

WillE goes through the rogue's baseline kit, the three talent trees, levelling and PvP. The headline is that the rogue keeps its Classic shape, with two brand-new capstones and a lot of reworked talents. Here is each claim against the client.

The short version

• Most of what WillE names checks out. Sap Sap no longer breaks stealth, Distract Distract now lasts 10 sec, and the reworked talents match the client's numbers.
• Mutilate Mutilate is the new Assassination builder: both weapons for 75% weapon damage plus 17 each, 20% more on poisoned targets, 2 combo points, 60 Energy, daggers in both hands. You get it at level 30, inside the beta cap.
• Two new capstones sit above the cap. Venom Venom and Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts both come at level 40, so beta players at the level 30 cap can't take them yet.
• Some claims are about feel or server rules. Energy regeneration, poison charges and scaling, combo points staying on a target, and whether Rupture can crit aren't in the client, so we can't check them yet. This article also flags where the client and the video differ.

Claim by claim

WillE's claims against the WoW Forever beta client (build 1.60.1.70450). Classic Era numbers are the before side only.

Baseline kit

• Energy: WillE says it now trickles in steadily instead of arriving in a chunk on the 2-second server tick. Energy regeneration is a server rule and isn't in the client, so we can't check the rate yet.
• Combo points: WillE says they stay on your old target when you swap, and you keep them when you tab for a Blind Blind or Kick Kick. The client lists Combo Points as a resource but not where they live, so this is server behaviour we can't read.
• Poisons: WillE says 50% more charges, scaling with attack power, and they keep temporary weapon enchants like Windfury. No poison spell is in the client data we hold for this build, so we can't check the charges or the scaling.
• Sap Sap: the client confirms it. The tooltip ends "Does not break Stealth." Learned at level 10.
• Distract Distract: the client confirms a change. It now lasts 10 sec (Classic Era gave no duration) and reduces nearby enemies' stealth detection "as if they were 1 level lower for 10 seconds". Learned at level 22.

WillE says Blizzard confirmed on a podcast they want the rogue to be the best single target DPS, with weak cleave outside Blade Flurry Blade Flurry and little AoE. That is design intent, which the client can't show.

Assassination

WillE frames Assassination as fast attacks, poisons and daggers. The named talents match the client.

• Improved Poisons Improved Poisons (tier 4, level 25): rank 5 gives +10% application chance and a 50% chance not to consume a charge. Matches WillE.
• Mutilate Mutilate (tier 5, level 30, new in Forever): "Instantly attacks with both weapons for 75% weapon damage plus an additional 17 with each weapon. Damage increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 Combo Points." Costs 60 Energy, needs daggers in both hands. WillE is right that there's no positional requirement. You can take it at the level 30 cap.
• Seal Fate Seal Fate (tier 6, level 35): crits from combo-point abilities have up to a 100% chance to add an extra combo point. Above the level 30 cap.
• Venom Venom (tier 7, level 40, new in Forever): finisher that adds 30% poison damage and 10% application chance, 9 sec at 1 point up to 21 sec at 5. Costs 25 Energy and 1 combo point. Above the cap.
• Ruthlessness Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes Relentless Strikes keep combo points and energy flowing, as WillE says. Bile Poisons, which WillE also names, isn't in the data we hold, so we can't check its 20% and 40%.

Combat

• Precision Precision (tier 2, level 15): now 3 ranks for +3% hit, down from Classic's 5 for 5%. Matches WillE.
• Puncturing Wounds Puncturing Wounds (tier 2, level 15, new in Forever): rank 3 adds 30% Backstab crit, 15% Mutilate crit and a 45% chance for Backstab to add a combo point.
• Endurance Endurance (tier 3, level 20): rank 2 "Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%." Classic cut them by 1.5 min. Matches WillE.
• Flawless Execution Flawless Execution (tier 4, level 25, new in Forever): "Reduces the Energy cost of your Eviscerate ability by 10." In the slot Classic's Dagger Specialization held.
• Blade Flurry Blade Flurry (tier 5, level 30): +20% melee attack speed and attacks hit a nearby enemy for 15 sec. WillE calls it unchanged.
• Weapon Expertise Weapon Expertise (tier 6, level 35): now "Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%" at rank 2, instead of +5 weapon skill. Above the cap.
• Adrenaline Rush Adrenaline Rush (tier 7, level 40): "Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% for 15 sec." Unchanged, above the cap.
• WillE also says the weapon specialisations are now one talent and rogues can use axes. That consolidated talent isn't in the data we hold, so we can't check the axe/sword, dagger/fist and mace numbers or the axe claim.

Subtlety

• Opportunity Opportunity (tier 1, level 10): now 2 ranks, +10% damage to Backstab, Garrote, Ambush and Mutilate. Classic had 5 ranks.
• Improved Ambush Improved Ambush (tier 2, level 15): rank 3 adds 45% crit to Ambush, so it nearly always crits as an opener, as WillE says.
• Ghostly Strike Ghostly Strike (tier 3, level 20): "deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage". Scales with your weapon, as WillE says.
• Serrated Blades Serrated Blades (tier 4, level 25): rank 3 ignores 9% armour and adds 30% Rupture damage.
• Hemorrhage Hemorrhage (tier 5, level 30): 100% weapon damage, 145% with a dagger, and the target "take[s] 15% increased Rupture damage from the Rogue".
• Dirty Deeds Dirty Deeds (tier 5, level 30): rank 2 cuts Cheap Shot and Garrote energy by 20 and removes Garrote's positional requirement. Captions mishear Garrote as "Groat".
• Quietus Quietus (captions "Quieters"): the client has this Subtlety talent, but its tooltip isn't in the data we hold, so we can't check the 10% and under-35% numbers.
• Cutthroat Cutthroat (tier 6, level 35, new in Forever): "Your Backstab has a 15% chance to cause your next Ambush within 10 sec to not require Stealth." Above the cap.
• Thousand Cuts Thousand Cuts (tier 7, level 40, new in Forever): each Rupture tick cuts your next Hemorrhage or Backstab by 3 energy, up to 5 stacks. Above the cap.

WillE says Rupture Rupture can crit now because all periodic effects can. Whether a periodic effect can crit is server behaviour, not in the client. The client does show Rupture hitting for less than in Classic Era: rank 6 does 105 over 6 sec instead of 180 over 6 sec.

Levelling and PvP

WillE expects more levelling flexibility, with Assassination's poison scaling and a Subtlety dagger build both strong, and the old stun-lock PvP identity intact with Cold Blood Cold Blood in Assassination and prep in Subtlety. The client confirms Cold Blood (tier 4, level 25), which now also boosts Mutilate's crit. The rest is a feel judgement the data can't test.

Where the client and the video differ

• Distract Distract: WillE says it lowers an enemy's stealth level. The client says it reduces their "Stealth detection", that is how well they spot stealth, not their own stealth. Same practical use, different wording.

What the client can't check yet

• Energy regeneration rate, which is a server rule.
• Combo points staying on a target and surviving a target swap, which is server behaviour.
• Poison charges, attack-power scaling and the temporary-enchant interaction, with no poison spell in the data we hold.
• Whether Rupture and other periodic effects can crit, which is server behaviour.
• The consolidated weapon-specialisation talent and the axe claim, which aren't in the data we hold.
• Bile Poisons' and Quietus' numbers, whose tooltips aren't in the data we hold.
• Whether the rogue ends up the best single target DPS, which is design intent.

More on our pages

• Rogue changes in the client and the Rogue talent calculator

Sources

• ROGUE: EVERYTHING You NEED To Know In WoW Forever | WOW FOREVER (WillE, YouTube)
• Rogue: changes from Classic Era (ForeverDB, from the client)
• Rogue talent calculator (ForeverDB)
• WillE's YouTube channel