Rogue talent calculator and leveling order

Rotations & Guide · PvE guide · PvP guide · Talent builds · Abilities · Talent Calculator · Macros · Changes vs Classic · Poisons

Other classes: Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Priest, Shaman, Mage, Warlock, Druid

Rogues are energy-based melee assassins built around combo points, finishers and stealth openers. Forever gives them Shank (an off-hand strike from the trainer at 24), Mutilate (the Assassination capstone at level 40) and Venom (an Assassination talent that makes Shank boost your poisons), the Combat talents Coup de Grace for harder Eviscerates, Puncturing Wounds for Backstab crits and Flawless Execution, which makes Eviscerate cheaper, and Death Mark, Subtlety's capstone finisher.

Plan your Rogue talents for WoW Forever: click talents into the three trees and the calculator records the order you take them in, one talent per level, so you know what to pick at every level-up. Drag a level to move it, or click it to change its pick; every level is checked against the tree's tier and prerequisite rules. Share the build as a short link, load a recommended build in one click, and send the plan to the ForeverDB addon, which tells you where each new point goes in game.

Talent points in WoW Forever

From the Forever client (TraitCurrencySource): one talent point per level from 10 to 60, 51 in all. The Legacy perk Talented gives the same points up to 5 levels sooner (one more rank each at levels 9, 8, 7, 6 and 5). In each section a row needs 5 more points spent in the rows above it.

Rogue talents compared with Classic

Of the 54 talents in Forever's Rogue tree, 11 are new, 24 changed from Classic Era and 19 are the same. Classic talents Forever doesn't have: Murder (Assassination tier 2), Mace Specialization (Combat tier 5), Fist Weapon Specialization (Combat tier 5), Sleight of Hand (Subtlety tier 2), Improved Sap (Subtlety tier 4).

Recommended Rogue builds

Assassination: Malice and Lethality leveling (level 20)
Assassination: Slice and Dice and Lethality for groups (level 20)
Assassination: Eviscerate burst with a longer Gouge (level 20)
Assassination: Venom and Cold Blood leveling (level 30)
Assassination: Venom and poisons for groups (level 30)
Assassination: Cold Blood and Kidney Shot burst (level 30)
Assassination: Seal Fate and Mutilate leveling (level 40)
Assassination: Seal Fate and Mutilate for groups (level 40)
Assassination: Seal Fate and Improved Kidney Shot burst (level 40)
Assassination: Mutilate with Vile Poisons and Coup de Grace (level 50)
Assassination: Mutilate and Puncturing Wounds for groups (level 50)
Assassination: Seal Fate burst with Coup de Grace and Improved Sprint (level 50)
Assassination: Mutilate, Seal Fate and Venom at 60 (level 60)
Assassination: Venom, Vile Poisons and Precision at 60 (level 60)
Assassination: Seal Fate with Endurance and Improved Sprint (level 60)
Combat: Sinister Strike and Endurance (level 20)
Combat: Dagger Backstab for groups (level 20)
Combat: Riposte and Coup de Grace (level 20)
Combat: Riposte, Aggression and Blade Flurry leveling (level 30)
Combat: Blade Flurry and Puncturing Wounds for groups (level 30)
Combat: Riposte, Improved Sprint and Blade Flurry (level 30)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush leveling (level 40)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush and Blade Flurry for groups (level 40)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush and Weapon Expertise (level 40)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush with Weapon Expertise and Malice (level 50)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush with Malice and Improved Slice and Dice (level 50)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush with Hack and Slash and Malice (level 50)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush leveling at 60 (level 60)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush and Lethality at 60 (level 60)
Combat: Adrenaline Rush, Improved Gouge and Dual Wield Specialization at 60 (level 60)
Subtlety: Dagger opener leveling (level 20)
Subtlety: Opportunity Backstab for groups (level 20)
Subtlety: Improved Ambush and Premeditation opener (level 20)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage and Initiative leveling (level 30)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage and Rupture for groups (level 30)
Subtlety: Preparation and Premeditation openers (level 30)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage, Boot Knife and Death Mark leveling (level 40)
Subtlety: Boot Knife and Death Mark for groups (level 40)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage and Death Mark with Preparation (level 40)
Subtlety: Death Mark with Coup de Grace and Efficient Strikes (level 50)
Subtlety: Death Mark with Coup de Grace and Puncturing Wounds (level 50)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage, Setup and Coup de Grace (level 50)
Subtlety: Death Mark with Coup de Grace and Malice at 60 (level 60)
Subtlety: Death Mark, Malice and Improved Slice and Dice at 60 (level 60)
Subtlety: Hemorrhage and Death Mark with Malice at 60 (level 60)

Popular builds

Seen in WoW Forever: 5 players (5 characters). How it works: signed-in players upload their Companion addon file (its Your talent builds setting records each character’s talents). Each character counts once per level range, at most 2 of one player’s, and no names are shown. A spec appears once 5 characters from 3 different players at that level range have uploaded, and a build once 2 players run it.

Levels 10–19

4 Rogue characters at Levels 10–19.

Assassination: Not enough players yet: 1 of the 5 characters needed, from at least 3 different players.
Combat: Not enough players yet: 2 of the 5 characters needed, from at least 3 different players.
Subtlety: Not enough players yet: 1 of the 5 characters needed, from at least 3 different players.

Levels 20–29

2 Rogue characters at Levels 20–29.

Combat: Not enough players yet: 1 of the 5 characters needed, from at least 3 different players.
Subtlety: Not enough players yet: 1 of the 5 characters needed, from at least 3 different players.

Assassination talents

Tier 1: Improved Gouge (3 ranks, level 10+): Increases the duration of your Gouge ability by 1.5 sec.
Tier 1: Remorseless Attacks (2 ranks, level 10+): After killing a non-trivial enemy, gives you a 40% increased critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate, or Ghostly Strike. Lasts 20 sec.
Tier 1: Malice (5 ranks, level 10+): Increases your critical strike chance with all attacks and Poisons by 5%.
Tier 2: Ruthlessness (3 ranks, level 15+): Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a Combo Point to your target.
Tier 2: Improved Expose Armor (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 15+): Reduces the Energy cost of your Expose Armor ability by 10, and refunds 2 Combo Points when cast with 5 Combo Points. Classic: Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 50%.
Tier 2: Improved Slice and Dice (3 ranks, level 15+): Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 45%.
Tier 3: Vigor (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 20+): Increases your maximum Energy by 10. Classic: Increases your maximum Energy by 10.
Tier 3: Blood Splatter (new in Forever) (1 rank, level 20+): Increases the duration of your Rupture ability by 6 sec and your Garrote ability by 9 sec.
Tier 3: Lethality (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 20+): Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Mutilate, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 20%. Classic: Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage abilities by 30%.
Tier 4: Vile Poisons (5 ranks, level 25+): Increases the damage dealt by your poisons by 20% and gives your poisons an additional 40% chance to resist dispel effects.
Tier 4: Cold Blood (1 rank, level 25+): When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Eviscerate, or Mutilate by 100%.
Tier 4: Improved Poisons (changed from Classic) (5 ranks, level 25+): Increases the chance to apply Poisons to your target by 10%, and gives Poison applications a 50% chance to not consume a charge. Classic: Increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 10%.
Tier 5: Relentless Strikes (changed from Classic) (5 ranks, level 30+): Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per Combo Point to restore 25 Energy. Classic: Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Tier 5: Venom (new in Forever) (1 rank, level 30+): Causes your Shank ability to increase your Poison damage by 30% and your chance to apply Poisons by 20% for 6 sec.
Tier 5: Improved Kidney Shot (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 30+): Enemies Stunned by your Kidney Shot ability take 10% increased damage from your poisons and attacks. Classic: While affected by your Kidney Shot ability, the target receives an additional 9% damage from all sources.
Tier 6: Seal Fate (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 35+): Your critical strikes from abilities that add Combo Points have a 100% chance to add an additional Combo Point. Classic: Your critical strikes from abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.
Tier 7: Mutilate (new in Forever) (1 rank, level 40+): Instantly attacks with both weapons for 90% weapon damage plus an additional 39 with each weapon. Damage increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 Combo Points.

Combat talents

Tier 1: Coup de Grace (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 10+): Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 20%, and the damage and storage rate of your Death Mark ability by 20%. Classic: Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Tier 1: Efficient Strikes (2 ranks, level 10+): Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike and Hemorrhage abilities by 5.
Tier 1: Lightning Reflexes (5 ranks, level 10+): Increases your Dodge chance by 5%.
Tier 2: Puncturing Wounds (new in Forever) (3 ranks, level 15+): Increases the critical strike chance of your Backstab by 30% and your Mutilate by 15%, and gives Backstab a 45% chance to add an additional Combo Point.
Tier 2: Deflection (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 15+): Increases your Parry chance by 6%. Classic: Increases your Parry chance by 5%.
Tier 2: Precision (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 15+): Improves your chance to hit by 3%. Classic: Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 5%.
Tier 2: Improved Sprint (2 ranks, level 15+): Gives a 100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability.
Tier 3: Endurance (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 20+): Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 60%. Classic: Reduces the cooldown of your Sprint and Evasion abilities by 1.5 min.
Tier 3: Riposte (1 rank, level 20+): A strike that becomes active after parrying an opponent's attack. This attack deals 150% weapon damage and disarms the target for 6 sec.
Tier 3: Composure (new in Forever) (2 ranks, level 20+): Increases the Energy cost reduction of your Poised ability by 10.
Tier 4: Improved Kick (2 ranks, level 25+): Gives your Kick ability a 100% chance to Silence the target for 2 sec.
Tier 4: Flawless Execution (new in Forever) (1 rank, level 25+): Reduces the Energy cost of your Eviscerate ability by 15.
Tier 4: Weapon Expertise (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 25+): Reduces the chance for your attacks to be Dodged or Parried by 2%. Classic: Increases your skill with Sword, Fist and Dagger weapons by 5.
Tier 4: Aggression (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 25+): Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike and Eviscerate abilities by 15%. Classic: Increases the damage of your Sinister Strike and Eviscerate abilities by 6%.
Tier 5: Dual Wield Specialization (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 30+): Increases the damage done by your off-hand weapon by 50%. Classic: Increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 50%.
Tier 5: Blade Flurry (1 rank, level 30+): Increases your melee attack speed by 20% and your melee attacks strike an additional nearby opponent. Lasts 15 sec.
Tier 5: Hack and Slash (changed from Classic) (5 ranks, level 30+): Gives your melee weapon attacks a benefit depending on the weapon. Axe/Sword: Your successful melee attacks have a 5% chance to trigger an extra attack on the target. Dagger/Fist: Increases your critical strike chance by 5%. Mace: Your attacks ignore 15% of your target's armor. Classic: Gives you a 5% chance to get an extra attack on the same target after dealing damage with your Sword.
Tier 6: Flash of Steel (new in Forever) (5 ranks, level 35+): Increases the Energy generated by your Shank ability by 15 and reduces its cooldown by 2.0 sec.
Tier 7: Adrenaline Rush (1 rank, level 40+): Increases your Energy regeneration rate by 100% for 15 sec.

Subtlety talents

Tier 1: Setup (3 ranks, level 10+): Gives you a 45% chance to add a Combo Point to your target after Dodging their attack or fully resisting one of their spells.
Tier 1: Master of Deception (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 10+): Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode as if you were 3 levels higher. Classic: Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4).
Tier 1: Opportunity (5 ranks, level 10+): Increases the damage dealt by your Backstab, Garrote, Ambush, and Mutilate abilities by 20%.
Tier 2: Dirty Deeds (2 ranks, level 15+): Reduces the Energy cost of your Cheap Shot and Garrote abilities by 20, and your Garrote ability no longer requires you to be behind your target.
Tier 2: Camouflage (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 15+): Reduces your speed penalty from your Stealth ability by 15% and reduces its cooldown by 6 sec. Classic: Increases your speed while stealthed by 15% and reduces the cooldown of your Stealth ability by 5 sec.
Tier 2: Improved Ambush (3 ranks, level 15+): Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 45%.
Tier 2: Dirty Tricks (new in Forever) (2 ranks, level 15+): Reduces the Energy cost of your Sap and Blind abilities by 50%.
Tier 3: Initiative (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 20+): Gives you a 100% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability. Classic: Gives you a 75% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Tier 3: Premeditation (changed from Classic) (1 rank, level 20+): Adds 2 Combo Points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 20 sec or the combo points are lost. Classic: When used, adds 2 combo points to your target. You must add to or use those combo points within 10 sec or the combo points are lost.
Tier 3: Serrated Blades (changed from Classic) (3 ranks, level 20+): Causes your attacks to ignore 9% of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%. Classic: Causes your attacks to ignore 300 of your target's Armor and increases the damage dealt by your Rupture ability by 30%. The amount of Armor reduced increases with your level. (Numbers at level 60; they grow with your level.)
Tier 4: Elusiveness (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 25+): Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 90 sec. Classic: Reduces the cooldown of your Vanish and Blind abilities by 1.5 min.
Tier 4: Ghostly Strike (changed from Classic) (1 rank, level 25+): A strike that deals 125% (180% if a Dagger is equipped in your Main Hand) weapon damage, increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec, and causes your next Ambush or Garrote cast within 7 sec to not require Stealth. Awards 1 combo point. Classic: A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
Tier 4: Quick Getaway (new in Forever) (2 ranks, level 25+): Increases the maximum number of targets you may have Sapped by 1, and increases your movement speed by 30% for 3 sec after Sapping a target.
Tier 5: Heightened Senses (changed from Classic) (2 ranks, level 30+): Increases your Stealth detection as if you were 3 levels higher and reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%. Classic: Increases your Stealth detection and reduces the chance you are hit by spells and ranged attacks by 4%. More effective than Heightened Senses (Rank 1).
Tier 5: Preparation (1 rank, level 30+): When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.
Tier 5: Hemorrhage (changed from Classic) (1 rank, level 30+): An instant strike that deals 100% weapon damage (145% if a Dagger is equipped) and causes the target to take 15% increased Rupture and Garrote damage from the Rogue. Lasts 15 sec. Awards 1 Combo Point. Classic: An instant strike that damages the opponent and causes the target to hemorrhage, increasing any Physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3. Lasts 30 charges or 15 sec. Awards 1 combo point.
Tier 6: Boot Knife (new in Forever) (5 ranks, level 35+): Grants your Shank ability a 100% chance to add 2 Combo Points to the target.
Tier 7: Death Mark (new in Forever) (1 rank, level 40+): Finishing move that marks the target, storing a portion of the damage dealt by your attacks per Combo Point. Garrote and Rupture damage is stored at twice the rate. After 6 sec, the stored damage is dealt, up to a maximum increased by Attack Power and Critical Strike chance: 1 point : 12% stored, 165 (scales with attack power and critical strike chance) damage cap 2 points: 24% stored, 267 (scales with attack power and critical strike chance) damage cap 3 points: 36% stored, 369 (scales with attack power and critical strike chance) damage cap 4 points: 48% stored, 471 (scales with attack power and critical strike chance) damage cap 5 points: 60% stored, 573 (scales with attack power and critical strike chance) damage cap

Best in slot gear at any level: Assassination, Combat, Subtlety

Rogue abilities

Vanished
Eviscerate (level 1)
Sinister Strike (level 1)
Stealth (level 1)
Backstab (level 4)
Pick Pocket (level 4)
Gouge (level 6)
Evasion (level 8)
Sap (level 10)
Slice and Dice (level 10)
Sprint (level 10)
Kick (level 12)
Expose Armor (level 14)
Garrote (level 14)
Feint (level 16)
Ambush (level 18)
Poised (level 18)
Rupture (level 20)
Distract (level 22)
Vanish (level 22)
Detect Traps (level 24)
Shank (level 24)
Cheap Shot (level 26)
Disarm Trap (level 30)
Kidney Shot (level 30)
Blind (level 34)
Safe Fall (level 40)

No longer trainer abilities in the live client

Coup de Grace

Data from the WoW Forever client, build 1.60.1.70862, extracted 2026-11-09.