WoW Forever Podcast episode 2: class design, and what the client says

2026-10-01 · ForeverDB

Blizzard's second WoW Forever Podcast talks class design: three-or-four-button rotations, no more power shifting, a 50% Wrath buff, Warrior Rage changes and more. We check every named ability against the Forever beta client, note where the server-side numbers can't be checked, and list what each class had changed that the video never named.

This write-up is about an official World of Warcraft video, posted on Blizzard's own YouTube channel. What Blizzard says in it is quoted word for word. The ability and talent numbers and levels come from the WoW Forever beta client, compared with the Classic Era client. Rage, Energy and mana regeneration are worked out by the game's servers and aren't in the client, so we say when we can't check a number.

The second WoW Forever Podcast is a long talk about class design with Senior Game Designers Josh "Aggrend" Greenfield and Aidan "Zirene" Moon, Principal Designer Kris Zierhut, host Josh Corbett and guest Sodapoppin. It lays out how the team thinks about rotations and hybrids, and gives specific changes to Druids, Warriors, Mages and more. Aggrend also confirmed what lands on the beta this week.

The short version

• The beta jumps to level 30 this week, with the 21-point talents and two new dungeons, Aggrend said.
• Rotations are built around three or four buttons under 10 seconds, with cooldowns on top. The team said Mage classes "come up a little short right now".
• Wrath got a 50% base-damage buff, part of a wider change so caster gear matters from low levels. Blizzard expects Druid damage up about 2% at level 60.
• Power shifting is gone. The team describes a new "Shifting Power" talent in place of Tiger's Fury, but our client has no talent by that name yet.
• Warriors get increased Rage from crits back (a 75% increase, not double), and a rage-from-damage bug is being fixed. Both are server numbers we can't check.
• Recklessness stays a 30 minute cooldown (the client agrees). Bloodthrill and Slam changed too.
• At the end we also list, per class, everything the video didn't name.

Claim by claim

Named abilities and talents checked against the Forever beta client and the Classic Era client. Classic numbers are shown only for comparison.

How many buttons a class should press

The designers start from class fantasy, then keep the moment-to-moment rotation small. Kris Zierhut put the target at three or four buttons under 10 seconds, with cooldowns layered on top.

You want to have three or four buttons ideally, and more than that gets to be more things to keep track of than we want in the classic game. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (4:47)

Anything past 10 seconds counts as a cooldown. Fire Blast Fire Blast, with its 8 sec cooldown, was their example of a button that breaks up the rotation. Icy Veins Icy Veins counts as a cooldown too, though in our client it is still a Season of Discovery spell that nothing teaches.

fire blast has like an 8second plus cool down on it and you press it. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (7:24)

Druids: Wrath and power shifting

Wrath's base damage went up 50%. Kris Zierhut said that at level 60 the spell was weak enough that the buff is small in practice, and the team expects Druid damage to rise about 2% there. We can't check Wrath's numbers: the spell isn't in our client extract.

So raising wrath by 50% sounds crazy, but wrath damage was so low that at the end game when you're level 60, its impact was not crazy high. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (11:44)

That's going to make Druid's damage go up probably about 2% at level 60. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (18:59)

Power shifting is out. Kris Zierhut called it unintended, unintuitive gameplay that also ate every spare global. Aidan Moon described a new talent, "Shifting Power", that turns mana into 40 Energy in its place, on a 16 second cooldown that talents cut to 8. Our client has no talent by that name, and King of the Jungle King of the Jungle still makes Tiger's Fury grant 60 Energy, so this change isn't in the client we have. The Energy and mana figures are server-side and can't be checked.

the real problem with power shifting is that it's sort of this emergent gameplay that wasn't intended is it's very very unintuitive to players. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (13:28)

Warriors: Rage, Recklessness and cleave

Two Rage changes are coming. Warriors aren't getting enough Rage from taking damage because of a bug, and increased Rage from crits is being re-added as a 75% increase, not double. Both are server numbers, so the client can't confirm them.

warriors are not getting as much rage from taking damage as we intended. There is a bug. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (23:57)

it won't be double rage on crits. It's 75% increase. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (25:54)

Recklessness Recklessness stays a 30 minute cooldown, which the client matches (level 50, +100% crit, immune to Fear, +20% damage taken for 15 sec). The team said they tried short cooldowns on it, Shield Wall Shield Wall and Retaliation Retaliation, then pulled back. The client has Shield Wall and Retaliation at 15 minutes, half of Classic's 30, so still shorter than Classic but not per-fight.

recklessness is probably the strongest personal cooldown in the game because warriors have it and when crits give you extra rage it's insane. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (28:45)

Warriors are meant to be the best at sustained cleave through Cleave Cleave (level 20) and Whirlwind Whirlwind (level 36). Paladins were not given Divine Storm, feral Druids were not given Swipe, and Shaman only cleave by burning mana.

I want warriors to be the kings of cleave damage. That is their strength. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (25:01)

Bloodthrill and Slam

Bloodthrill Bloodthrill had its proc chance buffed and only triggers from main-hand melee attacks. In the client it is an Arms talent at tier 5 (level 30): your main-hand hits against a Rend target have a 4% to 20% chance by rank to let you use Overpower, and the effect lasts 6 seconds. Aidan Moon said a faster weapon procs it more often for less, a slower weapon less often for more; those rates are server-side. Slam Slam is new at level 20 in Forever, with a 1.5 sec cast, an 18 sec cooldown, a 15 Rage cost and weapon damage plus 16 at rank 1. Mortal Strike Mortal Strike (level 40) and Slam both scale with weapon damage.

It's not going to be a rotational button every 6 seconds Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (32:07)

Mages, Shaman and Warlock

Mage frost play is procs: Fingers of Frost Fingers of Frost (Frost tier 5, level 30) gives Chill effects a 15% chance to treat your next one or two casts as if the target were Frozen, and Ice Lance Ice Lance (Frost tier 3, level 20) does 300% more damage to Frozen targets. On Shaman, Maelstrom Weapon Maelstrom Weapon only speeds up your next Lightning Bolt, with no healing spell on it, as the team said. On Warlock, the "havoc" they mentioned is Bane of Havoc Bane of Havoc (Destruction tier 5, level 30), which copies 15% of your damage to one extra cursed target at range.

this is why Maelstrom weapon doesn't have the healing spells on it and it only has lightning bolt. Blizzard, Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (18:12)

Where the client and Blizzard differ

• Shifting Power and Tiger's Fury. The video names a new Druid talent, "Shifting Power", in place of Tiger's Fury. Our client has no talent by that name, and King of the Jungle King of the Jungle still makes Tiger's Fury grant 60 Energy. The client we have doesn't show this change yet.
• Retaliation and Shield Wall. The team said these went back to long cooldowns. The client has Retaliation Retaliation and Shield Wall Shield Wall at 15 minutes, half of Classic Era's 30, so shorter than Classic rather than per-fight.
• The Rage and Energy numbers. The 75% Rage from crits, the rage-from-damage bug, and Shifting Power's 40 Energy are worked out by the servers and aren't in the client, so we can't check them.

What the video didn't mention

Warrior

Arms

• Tactical Mastery Tactical Mastery is now a trainer ability at level 14, new in Forever (Classic's talent of that name became the Improved Tactical Mastery talent).
• Victory Rush Victory Rush comes to Arms at level 20: heals you for 10% of your health after a kill, on a 30 sec cooldown.
• Thunder Clap Thunder Clap now has a 6 sec cooldown instead of 4 sec and works in Battle or Defensive Stance (level 6).
• Improved Overpower Improved Overpower moved to Arms tier 2 (level 15).
• Spearing Strike Spearing Strike, a new attack that hits Giants, Dragonkin and mounted targets harder (level 25, above the cap).
• Weaponmaster Weaponmaster replaces Mace Specialization with a bonus per weapon type (level 30, above the cap).
• Sword Specialization and Polearm Specialization are gone from the tree.

Fury

• spell #1310236 Boundless Rage, a new tier 3 talent at level 20 that raises your maximum Rage by 30 at 3 ranks (in Classic's Improved Battle Shout slot).
• Battle Shout Battle Shout rank 7 now gives 139 attack power instead of 232, but lasts 3 min instead of 2 min (level 1).
• Demoralizing Shout Demoralizing Shout rank 5 cuts 196 attack power instead of 140 and lasts 45 sec instead of 30 sec (level 14).
• Raging Blows Raging Blows makes Whirlwind strike with your off-hand too (level 25, above the cap).
• Precision Precision, a new 3-rank talent for +3% hit (level 30, above the cap).
• Improved Demoralizing Shout is gone from the tree.

Protection

• Master of Defense Master of Defense, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: a 100% chance to generate 5 Rage when you Dodge or Parry with a shield (in Classic's Improved Shield Block slot).
• Taunt Taunt now has an 8 sec cooldown instead of 10 sec (level 10).
• Revenge Revenge rank 6 hits for 138 to 168 instead of 81 to 99 (level 14).
• Shield Block Shield Block lasts 7 sec instead of 5 sec (level 16).
• Vanguard Vanguard lets you Charge in Defensive Stance (level 25, above the cap).
• Focused Rage Focused Rage cuts the Rage cost of your offensive abilities by 3 (level 35, above the cap).

All 64 Warrior changes, rank by rank →

Paladin

Holy

• Reverence Reverence, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: 30% of your mana regen continues while casting.
• Voice of Truth Voice of Truth, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: 6 sec immunity to Silence and Interrupt.
• Purifying Power Purifying Power replaces Improved Lay on Hands (level 20): cuts Cleanse and Purify cost and Exorcism and Holy Wrath cooldown.
• Divine Grace Divine Grace, a new ability at level 10.
• Divine Precision Divine Precision, +18% Holy hit (level 30, above the cap).
• Light's Vigil Light's Vigil, a Holy Shock empower (level 40, above the cap).

Protection

• Seal of Fury Seal of Fury, a new trainer ability from level 10.
• Improved Seal of Fury Improved Seal of Fury, a new tier 3 talent at level 20.
• Sacred Duty Sacred Duty, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: +4% Stamina and shorter defensive cooldowns.
• Judgement of Fury Judgement of Fury, a new ability (level 25, above the cap).
• Templar's Bulwark Templar's Bulwark, a full-health absorb shield (level 30, above the cap).
• Iron Creed Iron Creed (level 35, above the cap).

Retribution

• Holy Conduit Holy Conduit replaces Improved Seal of the Crusader (level 15): cuts the mana cost of Consecration, Holy Wrath, Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath.
• Sanctified Judgement Sanctified Judgement, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: Judgement returns 60% of the judged seal's mana.
• Sacred Arbiter Sacred Arbiter buffs Holy Strike (level 25, above the cap).
• Instrument of Law Instrument of Law (level 35, above the cap).
• Hammer of the Righteous Hammer of the Righteous, a cleave attack (level 40, above the cap).
• Improved Blessing of Might and Sanctity Aura are gone from the tree.

All 92 Paladin changes, rank by rank →

Hunter

Beast Mastery

• Focused Fire Focused Fire replaces Improved Eyes of the Beast (level 15): +2% damage for you and your pet.
• Aspect of the Monkey Aspect of the Monkey now has a 100 yard range instead of self (level 4).
• Summon Hawk Summon Hawk, a pet dive-bomb cooldown (level 25, above the cap).
• Thick Hide is gone from the tree.

Marksmanship

• Careful Aim Careful Aim, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: +100% of your Intellect as Attack Power.
• Improved Stings Improved Stings, a new tier 2 talent at level 15.
• Lone Wolf Lone Wolf, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: +20% damage with no pet out.
• Rapid Killing Rapid Killing, a new tier 3 talent at level 20.
• Sniper Shot Sniper Shot (level 40, above the cap).
• Improved Hunter's Mark is gone from the tree.

Survival

• Improved Tracking Improved Tracking (renamed from Monster Slaying) is now 5 ranks instead of 3 (level 10): up to 5% more damage to the type you're tracking.
• Predator's Edge Predator's Edge, +melee crit damage and off-hand damage (level 25, above the cap).
• Expose Prey Expose Prey (level 30) and Survivalist's Discipline Survivalist's Discipline (level 30), above the cap.
• Lacerating Strikes Lacerating Strikes replaces Wyvern Sting (level 40, above the cap).
• Lacerate Lacerate becomes a class ability (level 30, above the cap).
• Improved Feign Death is gone from the tree.

Beast Training

• Pets get new attacks learned at level 1: Dismember Dismember, Savage Rend Savage Rend, Tendon Rip Tendon Rip, Web Web, Dust Cloud Dust Cloud, Pinch Pinch and Mine! Mine!
• Trickster's Dance Trickster's Dance, a new pet ability at level 20.

All 87 Hunter changes, rank by rank →

Rogue

Assassination

• Expose Armor Expose Armor rank 5 now strips 450 armour per combo point instead of 340 (level 14).
• Malice Malice now adds crit to attacks and Poisons (level 10).
• Improved Gouge Improved Gouge moved to Assassination tier 1 (level 10).
• Murder Murder now gives +4% damage to Humanoid and Giant targets instead of 2% (level 15).
• Mutilate Mutilate, a new dual strike (level 30, above the cap).
• Venom Venom, a Poison finisher (level 40, above the cap).

Combat

• Puncturing Wounds Puncturing Wounds replaces Improved Backstab (level 15) and boosts Backstab and Mutilate crit.
• Improved Eviscerate Improved Eviscerate is now +20% instead of +15% (level 10).
• Deflection Deflection is 3 ranks for +6% parry instead of 5 ranks for +5% (level 15).
• Flawless Execution Flawless Execution cuts Eviscerate's energy cost (level 25, above the cap).
• Fist Weapon Specialization and Mace Specialization are gone from the tree.

Subtlety

• Sap Sap no longer needs Stealth and doesn't break Stealth (level 10).
• Dirty Tricks Dirty Tricks cuts Sap and Blind energy by 50% (level 15).
• Improved Distract Improved Distract, a new tier 3 talent at level 20.
• Camouflage Camouflage moved to tier 1 (level 10).
• Master of Deception Master of Deception is 3 ranks instead of 5 (level 10).
• Cutthroat Cutthroat (level 35) and Quietus Quietus (level 35), above the cap.
• Improved Sap and Sleight of Hand are gone from the tree.

All 56 Rogue changes, rank by rank →

Priest

Discipline

• Power in Light Power in Light and Twin Disciplines Twin Disciplines, new tier 1 talents at level 10 (Twin Disciplines gives +5% to instant spells).
• Holy Precision Holy Precision replaces Improved Power Word: Fortitude (level 15): +18% Holy hit.
• Power Word: Fortitude Power Word: Fortitude rank 6 gives 70 Stamina instead of 54 and lasts 1 hour instead of 30 min (level 1).
• Power Word: Shield Power Word: Shield rank 10 absorbs 928 instead of 942 (level 6).
• Contingency Plan Contingency Plan, a new ability at level 20.
• Penance Penance (level 30) and Divine Aegis Divine Aegis (level 35), above the cap.
• Unbreakable Will is gone from the tree.

Holy

• Chastise Chastise, a new ability at level 20.
• Lesser Heal Lesser Heal rank 3 heals 130 to 152 instead of 135 to 157, but scales far better with healing power (level 1).
• Binding Heal Binding Heal (level 25, above the cap).
• Litany of Light Litany of Light replaces Improved Prayer of Healing (level 30, above the cap).
• Prayer of Mending Prayer of Mending (level 40, above the cap).

Shadow

• Improved Mind Flay Improved Mind Flay, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: +20% damage, +10 yard range, adds a slow.
• Devouring Contagion Devouring Contagion replaces Improved Vampiric Embrace (level 30, above the cap).
• Early Demise Early Demise, +30% Shadow Word: Death crit on low targets (level 35, above the cap).

Shadow Magic

• Shadow Word: Pain Shadow Word: Pain rank 8 does 762 over 18 sec instead of 852, and scales at 0.2 at every rank (level 4).
• Fade Fade rank 6 drops 4100 threat instead of 820 (level 8).
• Dark Sacrifice Dark Sacrifice, a new ability at level 20.
• Shadow Word: Death Shadow Word: Death becomes a class ability (level 32, above the cap).

All 84 Priest changes, rank by rank →

Shaman

Elemental

• Earth Shock Earth Shock rank 7 hits for 293 to 309 instead of 517 to 545 (level 4).
• Lightning Overload Lightning Overload, a chance for a free second bolt (level 30, above the cap).
• Earthbound Earthbound, an Earthbind Totem root (level 30, above the cap).
• Lava Burst Lava Burst replaces Elemental Mastery (level 40, above the cap).
• Fire Nova Totem is gone from the ability list.

Enhancement

• Mental Dexterity Mental Dexterity, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: +100% of your Intellect as Attack Power.
• Shamanistic Focus Shamanistic Focus replaces Two-Handed Axes and Maces (level 20): −45% mana on Shock and Lightning Shield.
• Rockbiter Weapon Rockbiter Weapon now lasts 60 minutes (level 1).
• Dual Wield can no longer be learned (Classic had it from level 1).
• Improved Stormstrike Improved Stormstrike (level 30) and Mental Quickness Mental Quickness (level 30), above the cap.
• Spirit Weapons Spirit Weapons (renamed from Parry) (level 30, above the cap).
• Shield Specialization and Enhancing Totems are gone from the tree.

Restoration

• Mindfulness Mindfulness, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: 50% of your mana regen continues while casting.
• Water Shield Water Shield replaces Totemic Mastery (level 20).
• Healing Wave Healing Wave rank 10 heals 1508 to 1722 instead of 1620 to 1850 (level 1).
• Riptide Riptide, a new heal over time (level 40, above the cap).
• Nature's Guidance is gone from the tree.

All 86 Shaman changes, rank by rank →

Mage

Arcane

• Arcane Blast Arcane Blast, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: each cast buffs your other spells by 10% but makes the next Arcane Blast cost more.
• Arcane Intellect Arcane Intellect now lasts 1 hour instead of 30 min (level 1).
• Arcane Explosion Arcane Explosion rank 6 does 232 to 252 instead of 243 to 263 (level 14).
• Dampen Magic Dampen Magic rank 5 cuts 135 spell damage instead of 90 (level 12).
• Arcane Focus Arcane Focus now gives +5% hit instead of lowering resist (level 10).
• Missile Barrage Missile Barrage (level 25, above the cap).
• Detect Magic is gone from the ability list.

Fire

• Fireball Fireball rank 12 does 425 to 541 instead of 596 to 760 (level 1).
• Flamestrike Flamestrike rank 6 loses its extra damage over time (level 16).
• Pyroblast Pyroblast rank 8 does 520 to 646 instead of 716 to 890 (level 20).
• Heating Up Hot Streak, a free instant Pyroblast setup (level 25, above the cap).

Frost

• Frost Nova Frost Nova rank 4 does 69 to 77 instead of 71 to 79 (level 10).
• Chilled Chilled is now one rank (level 1).
• Elemental Precision Elemental Precision is 5 ranks instead of 3, and gives hit instead of lowering resist (level 10).

All 65 Mage changes, rank by rank →

Warlock

Affliction

• Malediction Malediction replaces Improved Curse of Weakness (level 15): +5% to all your periodic damage.
• Improved Drains Improved Drains, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: +20% to Drain Life, Drain Soul and Wrack.
• Soul Harvest Soul Harvesting replaces Improved Drain Soul (level 15).
• Pandemic Pandemic, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: doubles your damage-over-time crit bonus.
• Malevolence Malevolence (level 25) and Wrack Wrack (level 40), above the cap.
• Improved Curse of Exhaustion is gone from the tree.

Demonology

• Demonic Aegis Demonic Aegis, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: +30% to Demon Skin and Demon Armor.
• Demonic Energies Demonic Energies, a new tier 2 talent at level 15.
• Demonic Brand Demonic Brand (level 25) and Improved Felhunter Improved Felhunter (level 30), above the cap.
• Demonic Knowledge Demonic Knowledge (level 30, above the cap).
• Demonic Pact Demonic Pact (level 40, above the cap).
• Fel Stamina and Improved Healthstone are gone from the tree.

Destruction

• Molten Skin Molten Skin, a new tier 2 talent at level 15: −10% damage taken.
• Fire and Brimstone Fire and Brimstone, +25% Conflagrate crit (level 30, above the cap).
• Shadow and Flame Shadow and Flame replaces Emberstorm (level 35, above the cap).
• Devastation is gone from the tree.

All 91 Warlock changes, rank by rank →

Druid

Balance

• Genesis Genesis, a new tier 1 talent at level 10: +5% periodic damage and healing.
• Nature's Majesty Nature's Majesty replaces Natural Weapons (level 15): +4% crit.
• Nature's Splendor Nature's Splendor, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: longer Moonfire, Rejuvenation, Regrowth and Insect Swarm.
• Moonfire Moonfire rank 10 does 240 over 12 sec plus 124 to 146 instead of 384 over 12 sec plus 189 to 221 (level 4).
• Eclipse Eclipse, a Wrath-and-Starfire cycle (level 30, above the cap).
• Improved Thorns is gone from the tree.

Feral Combat

• Primal Bite Primal Bite, a new attack (level 25, above the cap).
• Predatory Instincts Predatory Instincts (level 30, above the cap).
• Rend and Tear Rend and Tear and Natural Reaction Natural Reaction (level 35, above the cap).
• Berserk Berserk (level 40, above the cap).
• Lacerate Lacerate becomes a class ability (level 42, above the cap).
• Feral Aggression and Faerie Fire (Feral) are gone from the tree.

Restoration

• Gift of the Earthmother Gift of the Earthmother, a new tier 3 talent at level 20: −0.5 sec global cooldown on Rejuvenation, Swiftmend and Wild Growth.
• Revive Revive, a new out-of-combat resurrection at level 12.
• Healing Touch Healing Touch rank 11 heals 2139 to 2525 instead of 2267 to 2677 (level 1).
• Mark of the Wild Mark of the Wild rank 7 gives 385 armour instead of 285 and lasts 1 hour instead of 30 min (level 1).
• Living Spirit Living Spirit (level 30) and Wild Growth Wild Growth (level 40), above the cap.
• Improved Mark of the Wild is gone from the tree.

All 88 Druid changes, rank by rank →

Sources

• Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (World of Warcraft, YouTube)
• Druid: changes from Classic Era (ForeverDB, from the client)
• Warrior: changes from Classic Era (ForeverDB, from the client)
• Earlier finding: low-rank spells keep their full spell power (ForeverDB)
• Speed Running Classes ft. @sodapoppin | Episode 2 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (YouTube)