WoW Forever podcast episode 4, checked: no RP-PvP realm, no arenas, no free transfers

2026-10-15 · ForeverDB

We went through Blizzard's official PvP podcast (episode 4) with Aggrend and Tim Jones. Almost all of it is design intent for server systems (rule sets, honour, world PvP), so there are no client numbers to put to it; we quote the devs and say what we can't check. The one thing the PvP episode skips is the class changes themselves, so we list those for the five classes the show is about.

This is a write-up of an official World of Warcraft video, posted on Blizzard's own YouTube channel. The devs are quoted word for word with a timestamp. PvP honour, battlegrounds, world PvP and realm rules are run by Blizzard's servers, not the client files, so the game data can't confirm or deny most of what is said here: we flag each of those as "can't check". The class ability and talent numbers near the end are from the Forever beta client, build 1.60.1.70374, compared with the Classic Era client. Beta data can still change before launch. Our earlier announcement of this episode is here.

Episode 4 of the WoW: Forever podcast is the PvP episode: host Countdown To Classic with Senior Game Designer Josh "Aggrend" Greenfield and Lead Designer Tim Jones, plus PvP creators Savix and Tips Out. It runs just over an hour and is mostly about how the team thinks about PvP, not about specific spells. That means there is very little in it we can match to the client: rule sets, honour and world PvP are server systems. So below we report the devs' words, check the few concrete claims we can, and then list the class changes the episode never gets to.

The short version

• Forever is realmless, with one rule set per mega server: normal (PvE) and PvP. The team is "not likely to let folks move freely between them", so a PvP player who changes their mind would reroll on a normal realm rather than transfer.
• No dedicated RP-PvP realm is planned. Aggrend says the worry is splitting the already small RP community, but "never say never".
• No arenas or rated battlegrounds are planned. The team wants 10v10 and 15v15 fights, not 2v2 or 3v3, and treats the "rank 14" honour system as the launch system.
• Large-scale world PvP was rebuilt to run at scale. Savix reports no lag in big battles, though raid groups can still get split apart by phasing.
• World PvP will lean on scarcity: world bosses, rare hidden recipes and returning Season of Discovery events like the Blood Moon, rather than a ladder.
• Nothing changes for being camped on a PvP server. As Aggrend puts it, "PvP occurs on a PvP server." We also list the class changes this PvP-only episode skipped, further down.

Claim by claim

Everything the devs discuss in this episode is a server system or a design intention, so the client can't confirm the numbers. The class changes it doesn't cover are listed at the end.

Rule sets: PvE, PvP, and no free transfers

Aggrend opened with a primer on rule sets. Forever drops Classic's separate realms for one mega server per rule set: normal realms (PvE) and PvP realms. The important part for players is that your first choice is close to permanent. Because of how faction balance held up in Season of Discovery and the anniversary realms, the team found that letting players move freely causes populations to cascade, so they plan not to allow it here.

Because of the our historical knowledge, we're not likely to let folks move freely between them. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (4:05)

If you roll PvP and six months in decide it isn't for you, the team's line is that your option is to roll fresh on a normal realm, not transfer your character. This is a policy, not something the client can confirm.

No dedicated RP-PvP realm, for now

The most-requested thing going in was a dedicated RP-PvP rule set. Aggrend addressed it at length and the answer is no plans right now. The reasons: most RP-PvP realms since 2019's Grobbulus have trended into plain PvP realms (he points to Season of Discovery's Crusader Strike losing its RP tag about three months in), and the RP community is small enough that a realmless system splitting it again is a real risk.

We don't have any plans right now. We don't have anything really to report, but we're we're very carefully considering the feedback. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (9:30)

World PvP: scale, scarcity and hidden recipes

Tim framed PvP, and the Horde-versus-Alliance conflict, as central to this era of the game.

Really capturing the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance is is paramount. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (11:14)

On the tech, Josh said engineers did a lot of work to make large battles run at scale, and that the team has internal death heat maps showing PvP is the number one cause of death in the open world. Savix backed up the performance in practice. The team was candid that it isn't finished: raid-sized groups can still get phased apart, and improving that is an ongoing engineering job.

Our internal telemetry has has death heat maps that they've built to show us where everyone has died from anything in the overworld. And there's literally zero spaces where people haven't died from combat with uh with other players. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (13:25)

The clearest design direction was Tips Out's point, which the devs agreed with: the best world PvP comes from scarcity, not artificial incentives. Think world bosses, Devilsaur leather, or rare recipes that drop in one place. Tim said Forever has recipes still hidden in the client that nobody has found yet, and that the team wants to revive Season of Discovery world events like the Battle for Ashenvale and the Blood Moon, and enable things like the Eastern Plaguelands capture towers. It all points at encouraging players to attack capital cities and fight over objectives.

I've always felt like the most fun world PvP moments for me are when you're fighting over scarcity. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (27:08)

No arenas or rated PvP; rank 14 at launch

Asked about a more competitive system, Tim and Aggrend were both wary. The team doesn't want to silo players into PvP-only gear, and it doesn't want the warping effect that rated ladders have on class balance. Aggrend pointed to original WoW being built around big team fights rather than small-group arena. The honour grind to "rank 14" is treated as the launch system, with the rank 14 armour meant to "look amazing".

The game was wasn't really balanced around like 2v2s or 3v3s. It was more of like it was everybody in in a 10v10 or a 15v15 using their toolkits independently Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (23:13)

Camping on PvP servers: working as intended

On level 60s camping low-level players until they log out, the answer was a flat no: that is what a PvP server is. The team will only intervene on actual cheating or exploits, not on ordinary ganking.

The short answer is no. PvP occurs on a PvP server. It it that has been true for 22 years of this game. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (35:44)

Nothing in this episode contradicts the client, because none of it is in the client: it's all realm policy and server systems. The one thing a PvP episode never touches is the class changes themselves. The host even flagged that the class designers weren't on the call.

What the video didn't mention

So, the questions aren't going to be very class specific while we're talking PvP, but don't worry, I am trying my best to get Chris and Zirene as semi-regular uh guests on the show so we can pepper them with class related questions on the PvP stuff, too. Blizzard, The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (32:40)

So here is what Forever actually changed for the five classes this episode is about, from the client. The beta cap is level 30, and talent tiers open every 5 levels from 10, so tier 5 is the deepest you can reach now.

Warrior

Arms

• Spearing Strike Spearing Strike (new talent, tier 4, level 25): a brutal attack for 40% weapon damage, plus an extra 80% against Giants, Dragonkin and mounted targets, dismounting them. A new melee hit for a ranged-poor tree.
• Bloodthrill Bloodthrill (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Axe Specialization slot): your main-hand hits on a Rend target have a 20% chance to let you use Overpower for 6 sec.
• Weaponmaster Weaponmaster (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Mace Specialization slot): a bonus by weapon type (axe/polearm +5% crit, mace/staff ignore 15% armour, sword a chance at an extra attack).
• Tactical Mastery Tactical Mastery (new ability, level 14): now taught by the trainer, where in Classic Era it was a talent.
• Thunder Clap Thunder Clap: cooldown 6 sec instead of 4, and usable in Battle or Defensive Stance (Classic Era: Battle Stance only).
• Retaliation Retaliation (level 20): cooldown halved to 15 min instead of 30 min.

Fury

• Lingering Rage Lingering Rage (new talent, tier 2, level 15, in Classic's Improved Demoralizing Shout slot): rank 5 delays your Rage decay after leaving combat by 10 sec.
• Furious Precision Furious Precision (new talent, tier 3, level 20, in Classic's Improved Cleave slot): rank 3 gives +10% off-hand hit chance.
• Raging Blows Raging Blows (new talent, tier 4, level 25): cuts the Rage cost of Cleave and Whirlwind by 3.
• Slam Slam (level 20): now has an 18 sec cooldown instead of none, and gains a new rank 1 at level 20.
• Demoralizing Shout Demoralizing Shout (level 14): stronger and longer, rank 5 reduces attack power by 196 instead of 140 and lasts 45 sec instead of 30.
• Battle Shout Battle Shout (level 1): lasts 3 min instead of 2, but weaker, rank 7 gives 139 attack power instead of 232.

Protection

• Master of Defense Master of Defense (new talent, tier 3, level 20, in Classic's Improved Shield Block slot): rank 2 gives a 100% chance to generate 5 Rage when you Dodge or Parry with a shield equipped.
• Vanguard Vanguard (new talent, tier 4, level 25): lets you Charge while in Defensive Stance.
• Focused Rage Focused Rage (new talent, tier 5, level 30): rank 3 cuts the Rage cost of your offensive abilities by 3.
• Shield Block Shield Block (level 16): lasts 7 sec instead of 5 and blocks 2 attacks instead of 1.
• Shield Wall Shield Wall (level 28): reduces damage by 60% instead of 75%, for 12 sec instead of 10, on a 15 min cooldown instead of 30.
• Revenge Revenge (level 14): more damage, rank 6 hits for 138 to 168 instead of 81 to 99.

All 71 Warrior changes, rank by rank →

Paladin

Holy

• Voice of Truth Voice of Truth (new talent, tier 3, level 20): grants immunity to Silence and Interrupt for 6 sec. Useful against casters in PvP.
• Reverence Reverence (new talent, tier 3, level 20): rank 3 keeps 30% of your mana regen going while casting.
• Purifying Power Purifying Power (new talent, tier 3, level 20, in Classic's Improved Lay on Hands slot): cheaper Cleanse and Purify, and -33% cooldown on Exorcism and Holy Wrath.
• Infusion of Light Infusion of Light (new talent, tier 4, level 25): Holy Shock and Flash of Light crits cut your next Holy Light cast time by 1.0 sec.
• Divine Precision Divine Precision (new talent, tier 5, level 30): rank 3 gives +18% hit with Holy spells.
• Consecrated Ground Consecrated Ground (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Lasting Judgement slot): +10% Holy damage to the first 4 enemies in your Consecration.

Protection

• Seal of Fury Seal of Fury (new ability, level 10): a new seal trained from level 10, not in Classic Era.
• Judgement of Fury Judgement of Fury (new ability, level 25): the matching judgement, new in Forever.
• Improved Seal of Fury Improved Seal of Fury (new talent, tier 3, level 20): restores mana when Seal of Fury's shield is fully absorbed.
• Sacred Duty Sacred Duty (new talent, tier 3, level 20): rank 2 gives +4% Stamina and -60 sec cooldown on Divine Shield, Divine Protection and Templar's Bulwark.
• Swift Judgement Swift Judgement (new talent, tier 4, level 25): resets your Judgement cooldown and makes the next Judgement free.
• Templar's Bulwark Templar's Bulwark (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Blessing of Sanctuary slot): an absorb shield for 100% of your max health for 8 sec, applies Forbearance.

Retribution

• Holy Strike Holy Strike (new ability, level 6): a new melee attack trained from level 6, not in Classic Era.
• Holy Conduit Holy Conduit (new talent, tier 2, level 15, in Classic's Improved Seal of the Crusader slot): rank 2 cuts the mana cost of Consecration, Holy Wrath, Exorcism and Hammer of Wrath by 40%.
• Sanctified Judgement Sanctified Judgement (new talent, tier 3, level 20): rank 3 returns 60% of the judged seal's mana cost.
• Sacred Arbiter Sacred Arbiter (new talent, tier 4, level 25, in Classic's Improved Retribution Aura slot): +20% Holy Strike damage, and it refreshes all Judgement effects on the target.
• Blessing of Might Blessing of Might (level 4): lasts 1 hour instead of 5 min, but weaker, rank 7 gives 133 attack power instead of 185.

All 91 Paladin changes, rank by rank →

Hunter

Beast Mastery

• Focused Fire Focused Fire (new talent, tier 2, level 15, in Classic's Improved Eyes of the Beast slot): rank 2 gives +2% damage for you and your pet while the pet is active.
• Summon Hawk Summon Hawk (new talent, tier 4, level 25): a hawk dive-bombs your target for 18 sec and shares its cooldown with Arcane Shot.
• Aspect of the Monkey Aspect of the Monkey (level 4): now has a 100 yd range instead of self.

Marksmanship

• Careful Aim Careful Aim (new talent, tier 2, level 15): rank 5 adds 100% of your Intellect to Attack Power.
• Improved Stings Improved Stings (new talent, tier 2, level 15): rank 3 gives +20% Serpent Sting damage, a shorter Viper Sting cooldown and a longer Scorpid Sting.
• Lone Wolf Lone Wolf (new talent, tier 3, level 20): +20% damage with all attacks while you have no active pet.
• Rapid Killing Rapid Killing (new talent, tier 3, level 20): -2 min Rapid Fire cooldown and a damage buff on kills.
• Arcane Shot Arcane Shot (level 6): more damage, rank 8 does 217 instead of 183.
• Serpent Sting Serpent Sting (level 4): less damage, rank 8 does 415 over 15 sec instead of 490.

Survival

• Improved Tracking Improved Tracking (renamed from Monster Slaying, tier 1, level 10): now 5 ranks instead of 3, giving +5% damage to your tracked creature type.
• Predator's Edge Predator's Edge (new talent, tier 4, level 25): rank 5 gives +30% melee crit damage and +50% off-hand weapon damage.
• Expose Prey Expose Prey (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Killer Instinct slot): your hits on Hunter's Mark targets have a 10% chance to activate Mongoose Bite.
• Strider Kick Strider Kick (new talent, tier 5, level 30): a kick for 100% weapon damage and +30% move speed for 3 sec.
• Survivalist's Discipline Survivalist's Discipline (new talent, tier 5, level 30): -40% cooldown on Trap and Deterrence abilities.
• Lacerate Lacerate (new ability, level 30): a Season of Discovery rune, now a class ability from level 30 that nothing else teaches.
• Raptor Strike Raptor Strike (level 1): less damage, rank 8 adds 70 instead of 140.

Beast Training

• Dismember Dismember (new pet ability, level 1): a new pet-family attack not in Classic Era.
• Swipe Swipe (new pet ability, level 1): new in Forever.
• Web Web (new pet ability, level 1): a spider-family ability, new in Forever.
• Trickster's Dance Trickster's Dance (new pet ability, level 20): new in Forever.

All 85 Hunter changes, rank by rank →

Rogue

Assassination

• Mutilate Mutilate (new talent, tier 5, level 30): strikes with both weapons for 75% weapon damage each, more against poisoned targets; its rank 2 costs 60 Energy instead of 40 and comes at level 40 (ranked against a Season of Discovery version).
• Coup de Grace Coup de Grace (new ability, level 30): new in Forever.
• Expose Armor Expose Armor (level 14): stronger, rank 5 strips 450 armour per combo point instead of 340.
• Rupture Rupture (level 20): less damage, rank 1 does 15 over 6 sec instead of 24.
• Malice Malice (tier 1, level 10): top rank now boosts crit chance with all attacks and Poisons.

Combat

• Puncturing Wounds Puncturing Wounds (new talent, tier 2, level 15, in Classic's Improved Backstab slot): rank 3 gives +30% Backstab crit, +15% Mutilate crit, and a 45% chance for Backstab to add a combo point.
• Flawless Execution Flawless Execution (new talent, tier 4, level 25, in Classic's Dagger Specialization slot): cuts Eviscerate's Energy cost by 10.
• Precision Precision (tier 2, level 15): now 3 ranks instead of 5, for +3% hit.
• Deflection Deflection (tier 2, level 15): now 3 ranks instead of 5, for +6% parry.
• Endurance Endurance (tier 3, level 20): now cuts Sprint and Evasion cooldowns by 60%.

Subtlety

• Sap Sap (level 10): no longer requires stealth and no longer breaks stealth, a big change for openers.
• Dirty Tricks Dirty Tricks (new talent, tier 2, level 15): rank 2 cuts the Energy cost of Sap and Blind by 50%.
• Improved Distract Improved Distract (new talent, tier 3, level 20): +5 yd radius on Distract and a deeper stealth-detection drop.
• Distract Distract (level 22): now lasts 10 sec instead of having no duration, and doesn't break stealth.
• Setup Setup (moved to tier 2, level 15): now a 100% chance to add a combo point after a dodge or full resist, up from 45%.
• Master of Deception Master of Deception (tier 1, level 10): now 3 ranks instead of 5.

Weapon and armour skills

• One-Handed Axes: Rogues now learn One-Handed Axes from level 1, where Classic Era Rogues could not use them.

All 56 Rogue changes, rank by rank →

Priest

Discipline

• Power in Light Power in Light (new talent, tier 1, level 10): rank 5 gives +10% Smite and Penance damage to targets with your Holy Fire.
• Twin Disciplines Twin Disciplines (new talent, tier 1, level 10): rank 5 gives +5% damage and healing from your instant-cast spells.
• Holy Precision Holy Precision (new talent, tier 2, level 15, in Classic's Improved Power Word: Fortitude slot): rank 3 gives +18% hit with Holy spells.
• Soul Warding Soul Warding (new talent, tier 4, level 25): -4 sec cooldown and -15% mana cost on Power Word: Shield.
• Renewed Hope Renewed Hope (new talent, tier 5, level 30): rank 5 gives +10% crit on several heals cast on Weakened Soul targets.
• Power Word: Fortitude Power Word: Fortitude (level 1): stronger and longer, rank 6 gives 70 Stamina instead of 54, for 1 hour instead of 30 min.

Holy

• Divine Grace Divine Grace (new ability, level 10): trained from level 10, not in Classic Era.
• Chastise Chastise (new ability, level 20): trained from level 20, new in Forever.
• Litany of Light Litany of Light (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Improved Prayer of Healing slot): refunds 10% of a heal's base mana when it differs from your last heal.
• Binding Heal Binding Heal (new talent, tier 4, level 25): heals you and a friendly target; a Season of Discovery spell now placed on the tree.
• Smite Smite (level 1): less damage (top rank 160 to 180 instead of 371 to 415) but now usable in Shadowform.
• Renew Renew (level 8): less healing, rank 10 heals 830 over 15 sec instead of 970.

Shadow

• Improved Mind Flay Improved Mind Flay (new talent, tier 3, level 20): rank 2 gives +20% Mind Flay damage, +10 yd range, and a slow on the target.
• Devouring Contagion Devouring Contagion (new talent, tier 5, level 30, in Classic's Improved Vampiric Embrace slot): -50% Devouring Plague mana cost, and it spreads when a target dies.

Shadow Magic

• Dark Sacrifice Dark Sacrifice (new ability, level 20): trained from level 20, new in Forever.
• Hex of Weakness Hex of Weakness (level 10): much stronger, rank 6 cuts attack power by 204 instead of 20.
• Mind Blast Mind Blast (level 10): less damage, rank 9 does 472 to 498 instead of 503 to 531.
• Shadow Word: Pain Shadow Word: Pain (level 4): less top-end damage (rank 8 762 over 18 sec instead of 852) but a higher spell power coefficient of 0.2.
• Shadow Word: Death Shadow Word: Death (new ability, level 32, above the cap): a Season of Discovery spell, now a class ability nothing else teaches.

All 85 Priest changes, rank by rank →

Sources

• The PvP Episode ft. @TipsOutBaby & @Savixirl | Episode 4 - The WoW: Forever Podcast (World of Warcraft, YouTube)
• Explore PvP in Episode 4 of the WoW: Forever Podcast (Blizzard News)
• The WoW: Forever Podcast: Episode 4 - The PvP Episode (Kaivax, Blizzard Forums)